Yes. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. The fastest method [for me and possibly other dilettants] is to stroke the knife at a diagonal to the comb marks, top down, center out, pushing all the air before you with short, overlapping strokes.-Thinset needs to be pretty darn wet: Needs to stay put when combed, but should be soft and shiney. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Will add it in. Do you have any pictures? Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. Yeah it seems that the only products that will be compatible with cement board and the kerdi membrane are bostik ditra-set and schluter all-set (or one of schluters other products). Fixing that is not that easy though. Can I install Kerdi board just on the walls of my shower and use a PVC membrane on the floor? Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. Hi.I have a unique situation. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? Cement board sucks up the moisture and as a result, the kerdi doesn't always stick as well to cement board. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. This will include installing its components, such as drain plate and drain collar, as well as Kerdi Band for further protection of seams and corners. And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years. To put things into perspective, consider that a tile floor is made up of three layers: the subfloor, the underlayment, and the tile surface you walk on. Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. Glass mat gypsum board is a better choice. When doing so, it is important to ensure that the drywall surface is clean and free of dust, grease, and loose paint. Properly waterproofing a shower area sharing a living room wall, Can I use cement accelerator to decrease setup time of modified thinset. Ready to join the 100,000+ homeowners matched with pros? How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. Applying a conventional cement backer board to such a structure is almost impossible. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. A complete schluter shower kit is like $700-$900 depending on the size - this includes the pitched foam shower pan. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-box-3','ezslot_2',173,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-box-3-0');Yes, you can put Kerdi membrane over cement board. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. Cement board is a mineral-based board, usually 30 inches by 60 inches, that is used as a lower, dimensionally stable surface for installing ceramic tile, porcelain tile, or stonework. I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Think about movement. You can apply it on PVC, metal, slabs, walls, and floors. However, if installed on drywall, it only protects one side. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. x 96 in. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. I ended up putting up a thin, skim-coat of thinset all over the hardi board, letting it dry, and then putting up the kerdi. RedGard On Hardibacker Board. GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. . What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. Step 7: Cut the Tile. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! And for a more secure fit, you can also use screws. Underlayment is designed to smooth out uneven areas of the subfloor and form a rigid layer that prevents the flooring from bending. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . I would avoid Hardi, as Avanti is right that it is thirsty. We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? We like that the Kerdi membrane material installs easily over almost any substrate, including standard wallboard. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. Aquadefense is approved by IAPMO for use as a shower pan liner, but be sure to check your local building codes, as some areas of the country still require the PVC liner. The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. I've never had a failure. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Whether youre installing tile on a floor, wall, or countertop, choosing the right type of substrate, or underlayment, is critical to preventing breaks and cracks in both the tile and the grout. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? The mortar does . Thanks to all for the feedback. We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. . I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. What? Using modified thinset on KERDI can be tricky and in some cases, it can cause issues. I trust it and have never had a callback. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. 173 upvotes. You don't want to block off the end of the air chanel and trap half a sheet worth of air under there.-Not paying attention to the direction of my knife. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Anytime Mongo. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. It only takes a minute to sign up. I would get someone else. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. I'm thirsty. Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. You troweled on thinset combing it out then pressed the Kerdi into place? DensShield is one common brand. It is a fast process that is hard to mess up if you do it right. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. To line niche shelves, for instance. A successful tile installation largely depends on the substrate that the tile is attached to. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. However, a cement board is generally easier and less expensive to replace if a repair is needed. Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor, Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. All it takes is the right preparation. (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . With that said, lets take a look at the importance of choosing the right tile substrate, the options you have, and which tile underlayment material you should choose Kerdi Board or cement board? Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? I want to mount a cast iron bathtub, but not pull down my 1905 plaster and lath. Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. This is the traditional tile backer. When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. Yes, it is possible to put Kerdi over regular drywall. There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? And second, since it's foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. Please feel free to reach out to our Product Support Team at 1-800-992-6273 if you need anything. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. Let's start! Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. Given the complexity, its easy to see why even experienced tile setters avoid dry-pack mortar and use backer board instead when they can. Cut the shower tray to size. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? But a mortar bed does have advantages. #3 This is a DIY site. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. x 60 in. @JimmyFix-it - hardiboard is not really porous unless it is completely saturated. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. If you are looking for a way to minimize height buildup and eliminate a large level difference at thresholds, a mat product is a good solution. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. Thanks to Mongo's earlier post, we knew we'd have to spritz the Hardi -- but found that even that wasn't quite enough. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). The manual can be found here: http://floorelf.com/waterproof, I would say unless you are experienced in working with Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing membrane kit, then I would say work with an easier waterproofing approach, either liquid waterproofing or a combination of liquid and traditional waterproofing (plastic covering the wood frame). Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. Welcome to the site. Probably the simplest way is to caulk the gap with 100% silicone or a urethane sealant. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. Contact us: 888-472-4588 Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Will use the Schluter Shower system. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling. Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. (3ft-3in wide). You absolutely need to include some sort of substrate (cement board, green board, regular drywall) with the Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing kit. Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast.

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